How to saw and nail?

Submitted by maman on Sun, 10/24/2010 - 17:39

Pre-beginner questions, I guess.

I own a circular saw (I've never used it) and a miter box with a manual saw, and a straight saw that came in an IKEA toolkit.  So I bought a 1x2 for Ana's Barnwood Frame, and brought home this 8 foot long piece of wood and put it up on the kitchen table and laid it through my miter box...but what do you do with the other end?  Are you supposed to prop it up on something so the whole piece of wood is level before you start sawing?  Do you have to do this for every cut?  I put a yogurt container under the far end to try to get it the same height as my miter box.  Then I started sawing back in forth with my manual saw.

 

Apparently, my blade was too dull and I have no clue how to use my circular saw (Black&Decker).  How would I cut a 45 degree angle with a circular saw?  I thought maybe I could clamp it to the table with the end hanging off, and pencil in the 45 degree angle, but I worry that when I start the blade going it wouldn't actually stay on the line. 

 

I also have a pair of sawhorses, but I couldn't work out the logistics for them to be helpful because it seems like if I lay the board across both sawhorses and cut in the middle, the pieces are going to fall after the cut is finished.  And trying to catch them while a blade is whirring seemed not so bright.

 

Assuming I figure out how to saw, I also foresee some nailing and screwing difficulties.  With the barnwood frames, how would I nail pieces together at a 90 degree angle by myself?  And when you get ready to "leave a 1/4 inch overhang" how do you hold the pieces of wood steady to nail?  And if I am gluing with nails, do I put a blob of glue in one spot, then drive a nail down through that bead of glue?  I assume when I use glue with screws, I would predrill, fill the hole with glue, then screw.   The hardware store sold me silver screws, but Ana had mentioned gold ones.  In addition to asking for 2" screws, they wanted to know what size I wanted...meaning the diamerter of the screw shaft.

 

How many nails/screws are typically used if Ana doesn't specify?  Just one?  

 

I was so hot and fired up to build a farmhouse twin for my son who is still sleeping on a mattress on the floor in his new room.  But if I can't even figure out how to saw and nail...

 

Are there uber-beginner websites out there that go over these simple things that others probably already know?  I read the stories of moms building on their living room floors, but I don't understand how you can saw on the floor?  I'm missing some basic concept here, and apologize for the pre-pre-pre-beginner questions.

 

Also, my 1x2 cost over $6.  Is this normal?  I'll try to go to a major hardware store this week and get some prices on wood.  

 

Embarassed in NC,

Suann

tnslb

Mon, 10/25/2010 - 03:05

Well, firstly - good on you for trying to get out of your comfort zone, I think that rocks!  Secondly, this is a big post with lots of questions.  And I haven't had my coffee yet ;)  So maybe it will take a few posts to reply to everything ;)

 

Your wood should always be level when you're cutting it.  What I like to do for any angle cuts with a circular saw (and really, any straight cuts) is - I have a small metal square that is also a protractor.  I clamp it to the wood at the proper angle (I pencil my cut angle as well) about 5 1/4 inches over from where I want the cut, to account for the foot/deck/whatever it's called on the circular saw(you can measure from your blade to the side to see how much you need to account for).  This gives you a a nice sturdy guide to butt the side of the saw foot against.

 

When using a circular saw, you DO want the off-cut to fall away somehow.  Whether to the floor, or a few inches down to a shorter table or whatever.  It keeps the blade from binding and kicking back at you.  I'm not a sawhorse person, but I imagine you could clamp the wood down (I find the wood stays steadier using at least 2 clamps.  One not too far away from where I'll be sawing, and one further back)

 

As far as doing stuff by yourself?  Clamps, clamps, and more clamps.  Regular ones, right-angle ones, different sizes as you need them ;)

 

Glueing (for ME..all of this advice is ME advice.  there're many ways to do all of this!)..You're glueing the two surfaces together that you will be nailing/screwing.  So, if you have a 1x2 and a 1x3 and they're being nailed together to form a leg for something, you'd apply glue to one of the surfaces, put the 2 pieces together (glue sandwich really) clamp em, and nail or screw them.  For most things, I tend to eyeball it and decide how many fasteners something should have.  It's usually one in each corner (If I'm nailing/screwing the end of a board like a 1x4) and then one between those if it looks like it needs it. 

 

Maybe those moms had Orange or Blue do all their cuts for them?  It sounds like you bought Select Pine.  Which is *fine, it's going to be straighter and generally 'nicer' than whiteboard or #2 pine...thus more expensive.

 

Good luck!  I need to get some coffee made..I'm sure others will be along to lend some more advice :)

Tsu Dho Nimh

Mon, 10/25/2010 - 03:51

Are you supposed to prop it up on something so the whole piece of wood is level before you start sawing? 
Yes. Always work with the wood flat and supported. Ana's plans rely on good cutting.

Do you have to do this for every cut?
Yes. Cut a piece, slide the wood and support forward and cut the next

I put a yogurt container under the far end to try to get it the same height as my miterbox. 
Paperback books work pretty well too.

 

Then I started sawing back in forth with my manual saw.
That should have worked, if you were holding the piece solidly in the miter box frame. To start a cut, hold the saw at a slight angle, not level with the wood. Miter boxes are a lot of work, usually used for small moldings.

 

How would I cut a 45 degree angle with a circular saw?  Very carefully … I thought maybe I could clamp it to the table with the end hanging off, and pencil in the 45 degree angle, but I worry that  when I start the blade going it wouldn't actually stay on the line. 
You clamp a piece of wood to the one you are cutting as a guide for the flat "foot" of the saw. 
Look up circular saw on YouTube and there are a lot of how-to videos. It's a lot easier once you have seen the process. 

I also have a pair of sawhorses, but I couldn't work out the logistics for them to be helpful because it seems like if I lay the board across both sawhorses and cut in the middle, the pieces are going to fall after the cut is finished. 
Again, prop the ends up on something (a chair with a stack of books works) so the board is level.  If it does sag when you are cutting a long piece, you risk splintering the cut. I work so the cuts are between the horses and nothing falls unless it is a short piece and the chance of splintering is small.

You can make a quick work surface by putting a couple of boards or a chunk of plywood across the horses.

And trying to catch them while a blade is whirring seemed not so bright.  You have the makings of a good woodworker. You are thinking things through. Cool

With the barnwood frames, how would I nail pieces together at a 90 degree angle by myself?  And when you get ready to "leave a 1/4 inch overhang" how do you hold the pieces of wood steady to nail? 
You brace them on the workbench, with a 1/4 bit of scrap something
making the overhang.

 

And if I am gluing with nails, do I put a blob of glue in one spot, then drive a nail down through that bead of glue?  I assume when I use glue with screws, I would predrill, fill the hole with glue, then screw. 
You spread a thin layer of glue along the whole piece of wood, and then screw or nail them together.

 

The hardware store sold me silver screws, but Ana had mentioned gold ones.  In addition to asking for 2" screws, they wanted to know what size I wanted…meaning the diamerter of the screw shaft.
For a picture frame, skinny ones – 8 is a good general purpose size.

 

How many nails/screws are typically used if Ana doesn't specify?  Just one? 
The minimum is 2, one on each end, about an inch in. If you only use 1 the piece can spin around. It depends on how strong the piece has to be. For a picture frame, one at each end and one every 6 inches would be adequate. If you are making a play table for toddlers, one every 3 or 4 inches would be stronger.

Are there uber-beginner websites out there that go over these simple things that others probably already know? 
Try You-Tube for tutorials. It's much easier to understand when you can see it demonstrated.

 

I'm missing some basic concept here, and apologize for the pre-pre-pre-beginner questions.

Embarassed in NC,

DO NOT BE EMBARASSED! These are logical questions for someone who has never done any carpentry.

maman

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:36

Learned how to use my circular saw today by taking it in to a local hardware store and having them walk me through the steps.  Yay!!  I've decided to delay the twin bed a bit and start with the Simple, Cheap, and Easy Console Table. I had planned to built straight from the plans since this is my first project (the picture frame is being postponed) but I realized that 48" long is going to be way short for my needs.  So, I measured behind my couch and decided that I need a console table that is 27" high, 12" deep, and 80" long.

So far, I've cut and built two legs.  I was aiming for 26 1/4" legs, but ended up with 26 1/16" legs instead.  But all four pieces of wood are exactly the same length (lots of sanding the ends).  The two legs are close to 90 degrees, will this be okay?  They are probably like 93 degrees, or so.  After cutting the pieces and sanding them all over, I ran a bead of glue down the length of the board and put the two pieces together.  None of my regular clamps had a wide enough mouth, and my long wide-mouth ones were too heavy.  I will need to look into new clamps -- any brand recommendations?  

I bought some 2" brads today, with the hope that I could hammer them in, but they were too weak and they bent.  A brad nailer is $100 I don't have to spend right now (I'm eyeing a Hitachi compound miter on sale for $129 but it doesn't slide and has a 10" blade instead of 12) plus I'd need a compressor.  And the finishing nails that I was offered seem awfully fat.  What specifically are people using who don't have brad nailers?  Or has anyone found a reasonably-priced "staple gun/brad nailer?"  Do these work?

I ended up drilling with my countersink bit and then putting in 2" screws, which is frustrating bc Ana touts this as a screw-free project.  And my new countersink bit keeps coming apart as I withdraw and the drill bit stays in the wood while the countersink part comes out with the drill.  I took an alan wrench and tightened as hard as I could, but this keeps happening.  Do I have to set my drill to reverse every time I pull out?  After I sank my screws, I wiped on some wood putty but it seems really grainy and every time I went over the filled holes with a putty knife or my finger, a bunch of the putty would come back out.  Is it more common to overfill the holes and then sand down when dry?  The putty appears to be permanently adhered to my fingers now, too.  Who knew?

And now for my PLANS question: since I want to make this table 80" long, do I need to do something extra to support the table near the middle?  Like two extra table legs?  Would I still try to run the stretcher the entire length, or should I split that up as well?

tnslb

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 04:29

I'm not sure what to tell you as far as the nails go.  I just have a box of 2" and 1 1/4" finishing nails, and those seem to work fine for me.  I always reverse the drill to back out the drill bit.  Wood putty – are you giving it a couple hours to dry before you're touching it again?

 

With the Console table that long I'd be tempted to move the long bottom support/trestle thing to the back and then check to see how sturdy it is when you've got it together.  if it seems weak, I'd add 2 supports, probably 1x3s, from the trestle to the underside of the top.  Also, double check how wide your 1x12 really is, a lot of us have had issues with ours being 11 1/4" wide, instead of 11 1/2 like the plans say.  if yours is narrower, you'll need to adjust the measurements for the C, F, and I pieces to be 1/4 inch shorter.

 

I just finished this table a couple weeks ago, and I have my thoughts/comments about it on my blog – http://girl-vs-house.blogspot......table.html

 

How frustrating, I had a larger post and it disappeared!  Anyhow, I've been thinking about the build and if I did it again, I'd probably put together the 3 long pieces of the trestle and then attach them to C, which is attached to the legs.  It was a tough part, working alone.  Definitely futz about with each step before you do it, to try and see if it works for you, or if you need help or to combine a step or two to make it easier building alone!

psuryan

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 17:20

For your bit coming out, you may have tightened the allen screw without setting the bit all the way down.  Try pulling it all the way out, seating your bit all the was down, then tighted it again.  The allen nut should not be sunk below the surface much at all, if any.  Once you tighten it by hand, it should be staying in place. 

 

You also do not have to put the drill in reverse to take it out.  Try one fluid motion down and then back up without letting up on the trigger.  Let it run the whole time and it will not bind up on the wood and pull back. 

 

2 inch brads should be fairly thick, if they bent, you just need to go to the next thinkness up.  You can also try hitting with less strength, just take you time and hit it more.  A smaller hammer might help with that, I use a small ballpeen myself when using brads.  Try starting very gently to get it to where you do not have to hold it any more, then add some more power.  Once it is about halfway in, hit it hard a few more times to drive it in. 

 

When we went to do the trim in out bedroom, my wife was having a hard time getting used to hammering the tiny brads.  I nailed a piece of trim to a scrap 4x4, and let her practice on that for a while till she felt comfortable.  if you have some scrap laying around, put some together and just practice for a few minutes, it does not take long to get used to it.

 

For your circular saw, something like this might work well for you.  It can be made of scrap to any size you like.

 

http://wayneofthewoods.com/cir.....guide.html

Tsu Dho Nimh

Thu, 10/28/2010 - 00:27

maman said:


What specifically are people using who don't
have brad nailers?  Or has anyone found a reasonably-priced "staple
gun/brad nailer?" 

These things will hold small-headed finishing nails and keep your fingers out of the way.

http://www.acehardware.com/pro.....Id=1288962 (holds it and countersinks it – and it’s way easier to hit then the head of a 3/4 finishing nail.)

http://www.micromark.com/NAIL-.....,7356.html Just holds it.

 

And my new countersink bit keeps coming apart as I withdraw and the
drill bit stays in the wood while the countersink part comes out with
the drill.
 It sounds like the drill's chuck wasn't tightened enough - not the countersink collar, the tip of the drill where you stick the bit. You need at least an inch to an inch and a half of the bit in the chuck, tightened really firmly. Also. make sure you are drilling straight in and pulling it straight out. It's less friction that way.

Do I have to set my drill to reverse every time I
pull out?
  You shouldn't have to. Just keep it rotating and go down and up. (as you can see, opinions vary, but my uncle the professional carpenter would never let a drill bit stop while it was in the wood).

Is
it more common to overfill the holes and then sand down when dry?
Yes. Putty tends to shrink, so you fill holes, let it dry, fill again, let dry and then sand.

And now for my PLANS question: since I want to make this table 80"
long, do I need to do something extra to support the table near the
middle?  Like two extra table legs?  Would I still try to run the
stretcher the entire length, or should I split that up as well?